The audit of Best Value and Community Planning. West Dunbartonshire Council: audit progress report and Accounts Commission’s findings

Podcast transcript. July 2009

This is Anne McCubbin talking with John Baillie, Chair of the Accounts Commission, about our Best Value audit findings and the report on West Dunbartonshire Council.

So, John, what are the Commission’s main findings?

The council has made insufficient progress with Best Value. Some services perform well, such as the key services of education and social work. But – and it’s quite a big but – the operation and development of the council is being hampered by relationships between councillors and also by the nature of the political conflict among councillors. That, and the limited development of working relationships between councillors and senior officers, is causing problems. And so the council needs external help to resolve these issues and achieve the shift in attitude and focus so it can deliver Best Value for the people of West Dunbartonshire.

Just looking back a bit, this is now your second progress report from Audit Scotland isn’t it? The first one was in 2006, when you had a Hearing at Clydebank Town Hall and heard from lots of different people connected with the council and concluded in your findings that the council wasn’t in a position to deliver Best Value at that point. Following that, there was another progress report last year, in January 2008, and at that point things were looking a bit better. You acknowledged that the council had progressed, it had increased commitment and you were just saying it needed to increase the momentum of change and move forward as quickly as it could. But you did say you thought more time was needed to make those improvements. So that’s where we are, that’s where this report has come from.  

So what’s happened between last year, when you thought the council was doing ok and just needed more time, and now when you seem to be saying that there are real problems here? Have things got worse?

It’s not that things have got worse. It’s that relationships between councillors and the conduct of councillors, one to the other, has not improved and this is getting in the way of progress that otherwise could well have been achieved. This means for example that while senior officers are working more corporately in support of members they are struggling to increase the pace of change.

Are there areas where the council has made progress?

We’re pleased that some key services, such as education and social work, remain good. There has also been improvement in corporate working, such as the quality of reporting about performance, and in getting in place a team at senior corporate officer level that works well together.

So are council officers doing ok overall?

Well, it’s difficult to say. The senior officers are working more corporately but they are struggling to increase the pace. Now whether that’s entirely due to the problems I’ve outlined with councillors, or not, is difficult to say. And until we resolve issues with the councillors I think it will remain difficult to say. What I would stress though is that while staff morale is low, there has been good performance in education and in social work, and that indicates the positive commitment of staff. 

You’re talking about problems with councillors and the way in which they are ‘doing business’. Can you tell us a bit more about that?

There’s a problem here with councillors of all parties and it’s not helpful to try and narrow this down to party politics. West Dunbartonshire politics needs to change so that councillors work well together for the good of local people, as they were elected to do. They have to separate legitimate political difference from mere infighting.

You’ve made a recommendation that the council now gets outside help. Can you tell us more about that? What’s involved and what are the priorities?

A particular source of outside help that we have in mind is the peer group of chief executives and councillors from other councils. We have found in other councils where there have been difficulties that such a group of people drawn from peers has been extremely helpful in allowing the council to focus on what they need to do and in encouraging them properly to do that.

Have you got someone in mind for this external support?

Well, it’s up to the council to take this forward now. It needs to decide exactly what it does next and who it approaches. But there are now many people within the local government community who have experience of putting Best Value in place and ensuring councils have the right systems and culture for ensuring improvement. West Dunbartonshire should be able to benefit from this.

And where does this leave Audit Scotland and the Accounts Commission? What happens next from an audit point of view?

We urge the council to now take up our recommendation and seek help from others within the local government community, as a matter of urgency. The council will be audited as part of the next phase of Best Value audits and we’ll be working with other bodies to put together a shared risk assessment for this council. Audit Scotland will provide a further progress report to us after that.

John, thanks very much.