Podcast transcript - Interview with John Baillie, Chair of the Accounts Commission

Dundee City Council: Best Value 2 pathfinder Audit Scotland

1. John what are your overall messages in this report?

First of all, the Accounts Commission has introduced two new judgements to the audit. Firstly on the direction and pace of change and secondly on prospects for future improvement.

Now the judgements for Dundee are that it needs to improve more quickly and that it has fair prospects for future improvement.

To develop that, we can say that services are getting better, that the council is addressing service concerns as a priority, citizens are more satisfied and areas of weakness are being tackled.

But the council still needs to embed an attitude of continuous improvement throughout its business. And its current approach will not be sufficient to meet the big challenges it faces in tackling the city’s problems in the face of significant reductions in public spending.

2. So what’s the council doing well?

The council and its community planning partners have a good working relationship. This is having a positive effect on the quality of services and on outcomes, such as better educational attainment and reduced crime. And citizens are more satisfied now with performance than in 2005 when the first Best Value audit report was published.

And we also see encouraging signs that we hope will result in the council being better placed to improve and ensure Best Value.

We welcome, for example, the positive effect that the recently appointed chief executive is having. 

3. And what needs to improve?

There has been too much reliance on inspections to drive improvement. And we’re also concerned that there has been too little progress on implementing a previous recommendation we made to stop the practice of having all councillors sit on all committees, because this does not encourage effective independent scrutiny.

Now Dundee already faces significant demographic, economic and social challenges. And there is a significant risk that the recession and the tight public finances will affect the council’s ability to keep improving. The council’s current approach will not be sufficient to meet this challenge. 

It also needs to look more closely at other choices of how it delivers services and become more outward looking in comparing its efficiency and effectiveness with other organisations.

4. Looking back at the first Best Value report about this council published in 2005, has the council improved since then?

Yes, it has. In aggregate the performance of its services has improved, as measured by a range of national and local indicators. More importantly, there is evidence that this is having an impact in aspects such as raising educational attainment, developing the local economy and reducing crime.

Progress is also being made in some aspects of its management arrangements with, for example, significant improvements in its performance reporting. 

And this is all good.

5. So what should the council be focusing on now? 

Services are improving and the council knows what it needs to do to improve. We see encouraging signs that we hope will result in the council being better placed to improve and ensure Best Value. And we welcome the positive effect that the recently appointed chief executive is having.

But change has been too slow in areas that have not been highlighted in inspections as priorities for improvement.

We’re also concerned that there has been little progress in implementing our previous recommendation to review the practice of having all councillors sit on all committees. Because this doesn’t encourage effective independent scrutiny. 

6. What happens next?

The council will consider the report and what actions it plans to take to address the issues that are raised in it. Some of these will already have been included in its improvement plans.

The issues identified in the report will also inform the Assurance and Improvement Plan for the scrutiny of Dundee City Council over the next three years. A Plan is put together for each council after a shared risk assessment has been carried out by all audit and inspection agencies, working in a joint way. The Plan contains a three year scrutiny plan, showing the activity by each agency.

John, thanks very much.